>The lack of Firefox knowledge...
The lack of Web Standards knowledge maybe?
| 19 Things NOT To Do When Building a Website |
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Or how you know it's time to fire your web designer... In another list entitled "Top 50 Design Posts of 2007" I've stumbled upon this list of web design dont's : DO NOT resize the user’s browser window, EVER. I know you can, I know you feel really cool when you put that little Javacrap on your page and like a little miracle the browser window resizes to your wishes, but NO. You see this atrocious web technique mostly with spam sites and when “designers” design websites. That is, someone in the photo/video/art industry who “also makes websites”, but in reality has no idea how to make a successful ecommerce website. If your website requires the visitor to load your home page, and then “launch” your real website in a pop up, YOU LOSE. Pack it up, send it home, start over. If your website doesn’t load immediately on your home page and deliver your message within a couple of seconds it’s pretty damn hard to keep people along for the show (not matter how cool and Flashtacular it is). I see this technique mostly with Flash web developers, who for some reason think all flash websites must load in a pop up window (assuming it can get past pop up blockers), and have 30 second loading sequences and look curiously like 2advanced.net. If your website asks the user which version they’d like, high bandwidth or low, HTML or Flash, you ALSO LOSE. See above for the explanation on this one as they’re related. It’s like asking your customer if they’d like to enter your crappy store or your better store (but the ‘better’ store requires special glasses and a little 30 second wait…um NO THANKS), what you’re really asking them is “do you want to leave and buy from my competitor because I’ve put up a crappy roadblock before you even know what I sell?”. If your website is ALL Flash, FIRE your web development company, and if you made it, add it to your portfolio under “Useless web projects I’ve done” and start over. Flash it just a tool, a wonderful powerful tool for delivering animation, video, interfaces, shopping carts, functionality etc. the list goes on, it kicks ass. This DOES NOT MEAN you need to create your entire website in Flash, and if you do you will be at a severe disadvantage to your wiser competitors. Look at it this way, even Macromedia/Adobe, the maker of Flash doesn’t have an all Flash website, do you think there’s a reason why? Oh yeah, they want to make actual money and don’t listen to ‘designers’. If your website does not work in Firefox, welcome to 2007 DUMBASS. Yes in most markets Firefox only commands at most a 10-15% market share, but for some sites it’s much higher. Furthermore, if the morons you hired didn’t make your site and functionality compatible with Firefox they obviously have no idea what they’re doing, and aren’t up on their game. I have no idea why you would need a website, or functionality system that is so dependent on IE that it simply can’t work in Firefox, and frankly it doesn’t matter because there is no good reason. The lack of Firefox knowledge by a webmaster shows they aren’t of the Internet culture, and that’s a bad sign if you’re a business owner. DO NOT try to reinvent the website navigation. Put it on the top, the left, hell even the right will work but do not try to reinvent the way people interact with digital interfaces while trying to actually sell your product or service. People will get confused, then annoyed, then pissed, then gone. A well thought out site map with logical sub sections is better than using “drop downs”. Simply put, drops downs never work quite right, and only a few of the ones I have seen actually are usable. Furthermore, the use of drop downs usually means that the person organizing the content did a piss poor job of it. If you have the mother of all sites and need people to access hundreds of pages, you’re probably Microsoft or CNET and you’re ignoring me anyways. Visit josiahcole.com for the full article. |
1
Tuesday, 08 January 2008 20:59
Tuesday, 08 January 2008 20:59
2
Wednesday, 09 January 2008 00:53
Wednesday, 09 January 2008 00:53
The lack of web standards knowledge AND the unawareness of IE's bugs that can make you do stuff wrong for the other browsers.
3
Friday, 11 January 2008 00:50
Friday, 11 January 2008 00:50
What a disappointing list. Instead of touching actual modern day issues with web design, what he listed was mostly outdated and rarely used or seen anymore on any website.
Resizing the window? I mean, it's been MONTHS since that's happened to me. All flash websites? Unless it's for a movie, then same thing.. it's been months.
While everything he mentioned are annoying parts of web design, he really just came off as some little fifteen year old novice by crying, pouting, and wanting an internet fit to HIS needs. The internet isn't yours, kid. You'll find that out in due time.
Resizing the window? I mean, it's been MONTHS since that's happened to me. All flash websites? Unless it's for a movie, then same thing.. it's been months.
While everything he mentioned are annoying parts of web design, he really just came off as some little fifteen year old novice by crying, pouting, and wanting an internet fit to HIS needs. The internet isn't yours, kid. You'll find that out in due time.
4
Friday, 11 January 2008 02:38
Friday, 11 January 2008 02:38
Tyler, you must live in a much better part of the internet... No full flash sites in months unless it's for a movie? I must have seen dozens in the last months. And a lot of them, web design portfolios :)
And hey, those aren't just HIS needs. A lot of usability experts would tell you most of those are the needs of the general public.
And hey, those aren't just HIS needs. A lot of usability experts would tell you most of those are the needs of the general public.
5
Friday, 11 January 2008 21:38
Friday, 11 January 2008 21:38
That's true, I can't speak for everyone when I say that I haven't seen an all flash site, or resized window, etc.
I understand that they are also not his needs, and his alone. And in a perfect world, I agree. Usable, accessable, and user friendly design and code is obviously a better choice. However, it's not a perfect world, and a lot of people have to do dumb things on the web to please a client and get paid for their work.
If everyone just told their clients, "Naw, I don't want to do what you're asking because it's a really 'stupid' thing to do." then a lot of companies wouldn't last more than a week.
But still, his rant is in the end just that. A rant. And I think he came off as a very inexperienced, and ignorant "web designer".
I understand that they are also not his needs, and his alone. And in a perfect world, I agree. Usable, accessable, and user friendly design and code is obviously a better choice. However, it's not a perfect world, and a lot of people have to do dumb things on the web to please a client and get paid for their work.
If everyone just told their clients, "Naw, I don't want to do what you're asking because it's a really 'stupid' thing to do." then a lot of companies wouldn't last more than a week.
But still, his rant is in the end just that. A rant. And I think he came off as a very inexperienced, and ignorant "web designer".
6
Saturday, 12 January 2008 03:11
Saturday, 12 January 2008 03:11
Those clients need to be educated. Hopefully, if they're pointed by someone to a list of rants like that they might comprehend some of the arguments.
7
Sunday, 13 January 2008 18:06
Sunday, 13 January 2008 18:06
One addition to the list should be "Do not have over-sized headers that push your content below the fold"
8
Sunday, 13 January 2008 20:02
Sunday, 13 January 2008 20:02
Here's one:
do not use tables to mark up your website. oh the irony
do not use tables to mark up your website. oh the irony
9
Monday, 14 January 2008 05:43
Monday, 14 January 2008 05:43
I would hardly fire a designer for such things. Web design/development is not about flexing our 'intellectual muscles' and pushing others down with our outdated notions. At the web development company I work for as a designer, we show a caring and understanding attitude towards each other. We support each other, and point out where we can improve our skills in a constructive manner. This kind of article, while addressing some minor problems known about on the web for a while now, actually comes off a bit heavy handed. Sorry mate. No offence!
10
Monday, 14 January 2008 17:45
Monday, 14 January 2008 17:45
hmm interesting !!!
11
Thursday, 17 January 2008 00:04
Thursday, 17 January 2008 00:04
Good list. I hate full flash websites and pop-up layouts.
12
Thursday, 17 January 2008 11:21
Thursday, 17 January 2008 11:21
Here's number 20:
Don't lift articles word-for-word from other sites. Link people directly to the site and let them read it for themselves.
Even if you leave stick an extra paragraph above and below the content, it's still using material created by another person and 'grafting' it onto your site. That's called replicating (or stealing) content, and I doubt you had the original author's permission to do so. A less careful reader may think you came up with this yourself.
Quoting small pieces of an article (to get people to read the full thing on the original site) is fine. But this example goes way beyond that.
Guess what? "You ALSO LOSE".
Don't lift articles word-for-word from other sites. Link people directly to the site and let them read it for themselves.
Even if you leave stick an extra paragraph above and below the content, it's still using material created by another person and 'grafting' it onto your site. That's called replicating (or stealing) content, and I doubt you had the original author's permission to do so. A less careful reader may think you came up with this yourself.
Quoting small pieces of an article (to get people to read the full thing on the original site) is fine. But this example goes way beyond that.
Guess what? "You ALSO LOSE".
13
Friday, 18 January 2008 06:10
Friday, 18 January 2008 06:10
I think is mostly a geographical... thing. I mean, I don't know where are you from (I guess U.S.), but here in Argentina, clients LOVE flash sites.
It's really cheesy, I know, but... meeeh. Money. Anyway, in my country a graphic designer is also a web designer. So, what might look ugly as a professional web designer, it has a meaning as a graphic designer.
An example: I had to make a site that has the ugliest eye blinding green ever as a background color. And I thought: "This sucks". But the graphic designer who came up with, thinks this way: "Very few pages use this color. That's why it will be remembered". And it does work that way. So, if it has a reason, I don't think it's bad. (except for using IE, there's no reason to do that :p)
It's really cheesy, I know, but... meeeh. Money. Anyway, in my country a graphic designer is also a web designer. So, what might look ugly as a professional web designer, it has a meaning as a graphic designer.
An example: I had to make a site that has the ugliest eye blinding green ever as a background color. And I thought: "This sucks". But the graphic designer who came up with, thinks this way: "Very few pages use this color. That's why it will be remembered". And it does work that way. So, if it has a reason, I don't think it's bad. (except for using IE, there's no reason to do that :p)
14
Friday, 18 January 2008 12:34
Friday, 18 January 2008 12:34
James, that's less than 1/3 of the full article I quoted there. The above and below paragraph are just reminding that the original article can be found in its full version somewhere else and provide links to it. A less careful reader wouldn't have clicked on a link to the article anyway.
Kaeru, I'm not in the US, I'm from the other side of the planet, in Romania, and guess what... people here love them too.
It's not just a geographical thing, it's a cultural thing. I don't know about Argentina, but people here are very not aware of basic website requirements.
It may have been a lot more frustrating for me if I had to work for a lot of Romanian clients. Fortunately I'm lucky enough not to have to accept any project I get!
I know there's the money issue, but I tend to be a lot more productive when I'm happy with what I'm doing. And if I'm productive, my clients will come back and they'll recommend me to other potential clients. That's how I see it...
A website's not a painting or another form of similar art that gets bonus points if it's unique in any strange way (actually, a painting wouldn't be a remarkable one just because of its horrible but unique use of a green color either), there are many other attributes it must have. Usability and accessibility to name just a couple.
"Look at it this way, even Macromedia/Adobe, the maker of Flash doesn’t have an all Flash website,[...] they want to make actual money and don’t listen to ‘designers’." is one of the best arguments I've seen on the flash topic.
Kaeru, I'm not in the US, I'm from the other side of the planet, in Romania, and guess what... people here love them too.
It's not just a geographical thing, it's a cultural thing. I don't know about Argentina, but people here are very not aware of basic website requirements.
It may have been a lot more frustrating for me if I had to work for a lot of Romanian clients. Fortunately I'm lucky enough not to have to accept any project I get!
I know there's the money issue, but I tend to be a lot more productive when I'm happy with what I'm doing. And if I'm productive, my clients will come back and they'll recommend me to other potential clients. That's how I see it...
A website's not a painting or another form of similar art that gets bonus points if it's unique in any strange way (actually, a painting wouldn't be a remarkable one just because of its horrible but unique use of a green color either), there are many other attributes it must have. Usability and accessibility to name just a couple.
"Look at it this way, even Macromedia/Adobe, the maker of Flash doesn’t have an all Flash website,[...] they want to make actual money and don’t listen to ‘designers’." is one of the best arguments I've seen on the flash topic.
15
Friday, 29 February 2008 10:34
Friday, 29 February 2008 10:34
case one.
you are a well established web design company which it has been approached by a massive local company whose brand/logo is defined by the coldest green ever on white background and red stripes. you take your designers and art director with you and try brainstorming a better idea which you find it trendy and within standards. finally you come up with three drafts which none of them will be approved by the client, as you bashed the daylight out of his brand/logo/colours. being a local company he doesn't care about all your web standards, flash, tables, javascript or whatever; he's cousin told him that having a website is cool and he wants one. and he's willing to pay 10k for designing + hosting his little website.
What do you do?
say yes, accept the deal for the money and make the design as per the client's needs even it turns to be the WORST DESIGN OUT THERE or two
you apologize and tell him that the level and quality of the design he asks is way below the company's standards therefore you have no other option but refuse the 10k
you are a well established web design company which it has been approached by a massive local company whose brand/logo is defined by the coldest green ever on white background and red stripes. you take your designers and art director with you and try brainstorming a better idea which you find it trendy and within standards. finally you come up with three drafts which none of them will be approved by the client, as you bashed the daylight out of his brand/logo/colours. being a local company he doesn't care about all your web standards, flash, tables, javascript or whatever; he's cousin told him that having a website is cool and he wants one. and he's willing to pay 10k for designing + hosting his little website.
What do you do?
say yes, accept the deal for the money and make the design as per the client's needs even it turns to be the WORST DESIGN OUT THERE or two
you apologize and tell him that the level and quality of the design he asks is way below the company's standards therefore you have no other option but refuse the 10k
16
Tuesday, 04 March 2008 23:48
Tuesday, 04 March 2008 23:48
Andrei, of course I'd do it if the payment ware a lot more than it would be worth, but that's not really the point...
Even than, it's all sad because I do something I hate and I can't display in my portfolio and the client pays a lot for something that's really low quality.
By all means, I would at least try my best to convince the client that some of the stuff he's asking for is wrong (other mockups, examples, links to statistics, links to articles like this etc).
Even than, it's all sad because I do something I hate and I can't display in my portfolio and the client pays a lot for something that's really low quality.
By all means, I would at least try my best to convince the client that some of the stuff he's asking for is wrong (other mockups, examples, links to statistics, links to articles like this etc).
17
Wednesday, 05 March 2008 13:43
Wednesday, 05 March 2008 13:43
Even though I agree with you fully, sometimes you get that really one client from hell who wants to keep his idea and follow it no matter what.
In this day and age, I think most of you will agree that money talks, BS walks therefore I would have done the job, get the 10 grand and walk away.
I have so many clients asking me for animations cause they look slick so as long as their competitors are using it (some very cheap gifs or whatever) he would like one on his website. If it's on index and bigger, the better. And he's willing to pay. A lot.
So you either sit for days explaining him something that he's way over his understanding or do the job, fetch the money and go.
I've done it couple of times and in one year time I get the same guys back as eventually they woke up and discovered that SEO is more important than some slick looking flash.
I think some of us don't wanna comprehend that sometimes we're paid to do get the job done and not changing customers' views
In this day and age, I think most of you will agree that money talks, BS walks therefore I would have done the job, get the 10 grand and walk away.
I have so many clients asking me for animations cause they look slick so as long as their competitors are using it (some very cheap gifs or whatever) he would like one on his website. If it's on index and bigger, the better. And he's willing to pay. A lot.
So you either sit for days explaining him something that he's way over his understanding or do the job, fetch the money and go.
I've done it couple of times and in one year time I get the same guys back as eventually they woke up and discovered that SEO is more important than some slick looking flash.
I think some of us don't wanna comprehend that sometimes we're paid to do get the job done and not changing customers' views
18
Thursday, 13 March 2008 16:42
Thursday, 13 March 2008 16:42
Good list but some people do in fact like flash websites. Just depends on the person.
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